banned on that other site, so here I am!

[Mr X]

PS: I enjoyed the seasonal remark - but nothing is wrong with christians, believing in something that is a fallacy isn't disprovable in my opinion, only intellectually ridiculous , but then faith has never tried to be intellectual - quite the emotional bi-pole - again i think Love is a positive force for the proturberance of life -sex is good for life!!! - it's people who think that this 'love' business involves chopping sworn enemies heads off. In which I'd have to point out - that's pretty crazy - and the bi-pole of intention.

Another way of saying it might be, fallacies are non disprovable constructs, but whatever the case people are can be 'morons' - using any sort of intellectual or emotional exploit to better their agenda. I firmly believe that is where the problems in humanity start. Not a bunch of 'silly people believing a myth' - that's not dangerous until you think your 'myth' equivocates requirements to kill half of Prague to avenge the success of Bohemian freedom..

Perhaps justification is a greater enemy than religion??? I'm definitely undecided. It's certainly an interesting topic of debate.

A

The only reason Christmas is now celebrated in December is as a device to stamp the new religion of Christianity over the top of the old pagan customs.
The Christmas tree originates from the northern European custom of bringing evergreens (pine trees, holly etc) into the home to encourage regrowth in the spring. The yule log is also originally a pagan custom. The feasting comes from celebrating the winter solstice and the turning of the year. Most scholars agree Jesus was most likely born in September, not December.

The same goes for Easter. Easter is not mentioned anywhere in the christian bible. Easter originated from the old pagan festival celebrating the germanic goddess Eostre. If Easter really was about the killing and resurrection of Jesus it would have a fixed date in the calendar, it would not move about with the cycle of the moon. Also easter eggs are a pagan symbol of rebirth and fertility. Easter is just another example of christians imposing a fake christian festival over the top of a northern european festival in order to stamp out the latter.

Christianity is as foreign to northern europe as Islam, both are arabic religions.

[Mr X]

Ahh, that's my problem I always considered an atheist or a theist 'someone arrogant to think they knew for sure'

That's why I'm deeply agnostic, but the power of belief to me is really strong.. I've seen what it does to some religious and non religious people ;-))

Let me elaborate a little, I have a deep respect for those of any faith - *cough* - if atheist really is a belief, then is not atheism a faith? I don't know. I just feel we kind of need to separate knowledge from belief.. clearly they are different, yet one can be built onto the other..

I feel like the chicken and the egg just whacked me over the head with a large hen.

A

That is the mistake most theists make, thinking atheism is a belief or organised. It isn't.

Atheism is a complete lack of belief in human supernatural invention created to explain the unknown.

Look at the history of theism and it becomes obvious.

At first mankind were hunter gatherers, so they created animal gods to help in the hunt.

Then man domesticated animals, and started farming, so he invented rain, wind, sun, and earth gods to help with the crops.

Then man became master of his environment, so he created a single 'god', in his own image so he could worship himself.


There is a brief explanation of how christmas was deliberately imposed over the old pagan customs here:

http://www.essortment.com/all/christmaspagan_rece.htm

[7redorbs]

That is the mistake most theists make, thinking atheism is a belief or organised. It isn't.

Atheism is a complete lack of belief in human supernatural invention created to explain the unknown.

Look at the history of theism and it becomes obvious.

At first mankind were hunter gatherers, so they created animal gods to help in the hunt.

Then man domesticated animals, and started farming, so he invented rain, wind, sun, and earth gods to help with the crops.

Then man became master of his environment, so he created a single 'god', in his own image so he could worship himself.


There is a brief explanation of how christmas was deliberately imposed over the old pagan customs here:

Christmas' pagan origins

hey Smith W, you have my full respect. I'm distinctly agnostic, who 'believes' in the power of belief (eek is that a fallacy?)

Atheism is a complete lack of belief in human supernatural invention created to explain the unknown.

I know this sounds bizarre - and might seem like ' a basic already explained issue ' -but how is a lack of a belief in theism lacking in a belief? It isn't, is it?

I really consider myself agnostic because I don't KNOW if I can make any judgment without assumption, or a belief - to which knowledge would be founded upon. I suppose this is a question me and cynar have debated for many countless hours.

I think the one time where I got him thinking was when I said - 'is belief required to read your multi-meter'?

Do not confuse this with some theistic bible bashing benevolence - i just genuinely am troubled by this problem each day , as indeed, any scientist will tell you - all science is based on intelligent assumption - and is that not a belief?? A good question indeed... without seeming rude because clearly you know your definitions wayyyy better than me - I sometimes feel like talking about transit culture of history before understanding the nature and definitions of the 'core' of the 'wire' (i.e. human mind, dna etc) - definitions of God can only be built on assumption.

Equally any fallacy existing in 3d space - could in my opinion - only be worked out by an assumption - that is - where omnipotent, omniprescent arcehtypes are not possible. The best we can manage is - god can and never will exist in 3d time - but that too must be an assumption - until we know all there is to know about the universe... pretty mental !!

:O Just to get everyone thinking!! :O Smith W, care to open a debate about this? :O

A

ps; yes Christmas is a pagan celebration 'stolen by theism' - the 24th of the 12 holds a special meaning - 2 fold symmetry - something the celts had a deep respect for in their art and writings - not that there is much left of it that isn't now in more 'modern' belief systems, i.e. Greek Orthodox, Mormonism, etc etc etc